Mayor Elaine O’Neal Interview, Part 1
Mayor O’Neal reflected on her time as mayor in an exclusive conversation with BCPI late last week. This first part focuses on the controversies she believes are still being misreported in local news.
This BCPI article and interview is written by Brian Callaway.
It was March 23, 2023 when the ground shook at City Hall. And aftershocks are still being discussed in many social and political circles of Durham.
That was the day explosive allegations from a Durham real estate developer against Councilmember Dr. Monique Holsey-Hyman were made public. At the same meeting, Councilmember Jillian Johnson introduced a resolution of censure against Dr. Holsey-Hyman for other unrelated issues: alleged misdealing with city staff regarding political work.
But it was a confrontation between councilmembers, caught on tape by local news outlets, that had the community buzzing and evening newsreels bleeping. Muddying the waters further, conflicting details emerged from folks who were in the room where it happened.
The INDY used testimony from an anonymous source (and said to be corroborated by a second unnamed witness) to report that punches were thrown by Councilmember DeDreana Freeman, striking both Mayor O’Neal and Councilmember Leonardo Williams. (The news outlet would later recycle that same narrative during their endorsement writeup in September.)
WRAL found a witness who went on-the-record to refute all claims of an outbreak of fisticuffs.
The three stories with an intertwined genesis—the extortion allegations, the censure threat and the heated confrontation—spent the entire summer seemingly evolving independent of one another. Then on September 19, they found another point of intersection after Dr. Holsey-Hyman was fully exonerated of all criminal accusations.
At a press conference the next day, Mayor Elaine O’Neal spoke out for the first time about the “profanity-laced” confrontation and censure proceedings from March 23. It was her nearly 5-minute address at this press conference that prompted BCPI to reach out to her, seeking further comment on these intriguing topics.
With just over a month remaining in her elected role, BCPI asked Mayor O’Neal a series of questions about the controversies (Part 1) and challenges (Part 2) facing Durham.
[This interview has been edited for length and clarity.]
After council member Dr. Monique Holsey-Hyman was cleared in September of an SBI investigation into extortion and misconduct allegations, you mentioned at a press conference she hosted that you have more to say on the topic. What are those things you’d like to say about the investigation and its fallout?
When [the March 23 work session in which the allegations and censure resolution against Holsey-Hyman were made public] ended, I told Monique, “I'm gonna walk you out, and I'll stand between the press so that you can get out safely without being bothered.” She was extremely emotionally distraught, as you might imagine.
Suddenly I hear all of this noise, just kind of screaming. I left Monique and headed towards the screaming [which was in a private room for Council members adjacent to the main Council Chambers]. In my line of sight, there was a city employee and a pastor. After the meeting had concluded, the pastor said, “Can I have a word of prayer with y'all?” So [some Councilmembers] had stayed around for him to pray for us.
I could see that DeDreana [Freeman] was standing in front of Leo [Williams], and Mark-Anthony [Middleton] was behind Leo. DeDreana was crying and saying, “Get your hands off me, get your hands off me,” because Leo was doing this kind of rocking back and forth thing with her. He was protective of Mark-Anthony. But Mark is barking back at her. So I put my hands on his face and I said, ‘Mark, shut up and go in the bathroom. The press is out here. Be quiet.’ DeDreana then left.
At no point did I see her physically assault anybody. I did not see her raise a hand. I did see [Leo] jostling her, but I don’t know that he was trying to harm her in any way. But Mark was just as aggressive towards DeDreana. I don’t recollect Leo being hit–I did not see that. The first story was that I got punched. If anybody punches Elaine O’Neal, you’re going to know about it–or slap me or hit me, you’re going to know about it. So that did not happen–at all.
As you probably are aware, that is not the story that has been reported in local journalism.
I’m pretty sure it’s not.
The INDY reported from an anonymous source, which they said was one of the four people who were involved in or witnessed the altercation, that “Freeman did not calm down until Williams, with tears in his eyes, restrained her by pinning her to a wall in city hall.”
I did not witness that on that day or any day.
Did you not witness the tears in William’s eyes? Or the pinning of Freeman to the wall?
I witnessed the tears in his eyes. I said, “Leo, straighten up your face; the press is out there.” Like you would tell your child. That’s what I was telling him, “Straighten up your face.” You know, how we typically do as moms. But no, there was nobody back there pinned to a wall. Definitely not.
You had an objective witness out there. You had a pastor. And he also talked to the press. I recollect the things he said as being compatible with what I saw.
You are correct, the pastor did give testimony to WRAL. And after the press conference that Dr. Holsey-Hyman held, Williams released an updated statement on the incident, writing, “I intervened to stop a physical altercation. In the process, I put myself in harm's way, and while unintentional, I was hit and put my hands up to block further hits.”
If you look at the size of the four of us, [Williams] is absolutely the largest. So I don’t know how much physical harm he was in before I got to the scene. When I came in, they were talking to each other. There was nothing I saw that made me think someone was in danger of being physically struck.
What I saw was a heated argument, and Black women talk with their hands. I do it all the time. And if you get us angry, you’re going to see a lot of head-shaking. That’s what we do. That’s more of what I saw.
Do you have any thoughts on why Williams’s story differs from yours?
I have no way to ascertain how anyone thinks. He’s a very different person [now] than who I ran with. I didn’t know him well when we were on the same ticket [in 2021]. So I haven't the slightest idea of how he thinks. I can only tell you what I witnessed and ask that you check the sources that were there, and you figure out what makes sense to the reader.
At what point did you become aware that Williams had an interest in running for mayor?
Back when I was really enthusiastic about Leo, I told him, “You might want to consider running for mayor one day.” This was only a month or two [into my time as mayor]. I already knew that I would probably not support Mark-Anthony Middleton.
Now, when it came to the actual filing in this race, I had no idea [Leo was running] because we just don't communicate like that. So I found out pretty much when everybody else found out.
At Dr. Holsey-Hyman’s press conference, it sounded like you were not supportive of the investigation’s mechanisms. How and why would you have chosen a different method?
Remember my background: I'm coming in with a lawyer’s view. So in my mind, that was a fairly uncomplicated investigation. They were just going to have to talk to a couple of witnesses. I thought that any licensed attorney could probably handle that. Thinking about this kind of allegation hanging over her life, I wanted to hire a private attorney to conduct what I thought was a simple investigation. And that was going to be my vote.
It was just that simple: you get an attorney to interview witnesses; it is done, and we can move on. But that was not the course of action that was chosen by the majority [of Council].
The investigation that happened did fully exonerate Dr. Holsey-Hyman.
Yes, so it worked out, but it was just a very long time; it was actually from March to September. That's a long time for her, and we've watched her be traumatized by that. There are still a lot of people who don't even realize that she's been exonerated.
If you don't have a speedy trial, that leaves a whole lot of damage that can be done in one’s life. I watched her. She was being impacted every day. So I was thinking that we needed to get through it quickly, not only for her sake, but for the sake of the city, as well.
Do you believe there was any coordinated effort to discredit Dr. Holsey-Hyman?
I don't say that it was done at that instant, but afterwards, yes. It was clear that there was communication back and forth about who's going to call the press. Jillian [Johnson] agreed to draw up a censure that I was never going to agree to. There was an interchange back and forth on email. She put my name on the censure–something that has never been done before. So you know, it's like a lot of little threads. I don't know exactly who started it or how, but they certainly are out there [on social media about it]. They may not have started the storm, but I believe there were tentacles of them helping to blow it up.
You mentioned “they” and “them” a few times. Could you elaborate on who that refers to?
I know Javiera [Caballero] called me one morning and wanted me to sign on to some remarks with them about Kim [Rehberg, City Attorney], in support of Kim, and I declined to do that. And I know [Javiera] was telling Mark, Jillian and Leo, that the Mayor has declined to speak in support of Kim. So from my vantage point, they were [coordinating].
Why have you waited until now or at the September 20 press conference to present an explanation of what happened?
Because I told the public that I was not going to say anything until it was all over, and I tried to keep my word about that. Of course there have been a number of people to ask me for a statement, but I decided that I would prefer this format. I do think that the public needs to be fully informed about what I saw so they can form their own determinations and decisions. I am about 35-40 days out [from the end of this mayoral term], so I think it's time to answer some of their questions.
This is election season now. And it's been said many times that Durham is an endorsement city, in that elections are decided by a network of endorsements from various power centers. What has been your perspective of the endorsement process within Durham?
Wow! When I was a candidate I swore that I would never fill out another endorsement questionnaire. In my opinion it is like the new poll tax. When I was running [for mayor], I can remember actually crying–and I'm not a crier–about the way that those endorsement questionnaires were coming in and the amount of time required to fill them out. It was clear to me that if you did not have certain resources, you were not going to be allowed to be a part of the democratic process.
I figured out that a lot of [groups] have already made up their minds about [their endorsement]. I remember one [endorsement meeting] that I had with a group who interviewed me at one of the local high schools. I had heard, “You’re not going to get that endorsement.” But that’s okay, I’m going to go anyway. So afterwards, it comes back to me that [the organization is saying] I wasn't prepared. Me not prepared? What you're not going to do is catch an attorney or former judge not prepared when you are talking about verbal questions. They would set you up to come to these things, and then talk about your performance afterwards–and it was always going to be bad. But you knew going in you weren’t going to get their endorsement. I found it to be a facade.
That had not been my experience as an elected official for 25 years. I’ve had all kinds of races. I’ve worked with the PA [People’s Alliance], the Durham Committee [on the Affairs of Black People], the Durham Voter’s Alliance [a local organization in operation from 1972-2002]. So I know what it looks like to have a fair process. The stuff that is happening now? Not so!
What do you think of the influence of Durham's political action committees, or PACs, on the electoral process?
It has not been good in the last 17 or 18 years; it simply has not turned out to be good for this city. When I was a superior court judge, a district court judge, we worked with different PACs. They would work together. Nowadays there is so much disharmony, and in my opinion, Durham has not been well served.
Have you seen the PACs influence the governance process? And if so, how have you seen that play out with Council?
It's like a tangled web. It’s like they have their tentacles, and I'm not sure who the “they” are. I don't want to talk in conspiracy terms, but the tentacles of people from within these organizations and how they have been able to be led and be influenced and take that influence and kind of do a circular.
Durham is at an interesting time right now because there is a general election. We have a chance to influence who is on the Council. Do you have any thoughts you'd like to share with readers about this election?
Durham is at a crossroads right now, which is one of the reasons I'm intentionally speaking out exactly at this point. On a seven-member Council, when the four-member majority vote together, things get accomplished. I recommend that voters check the readily available records of the meetings to make informed decisions before they cast their votes. All a citizen has to do is see how each of the members voted on the issues that were set before them. Check the record, Durham residents, and then realize that your vote is your voice of integrity and accountability.
Note: Polls are open for the General Election on Tuesday November 7, 2023. An acceptable photo ID is now required to vote. Voting takes place at your local precinct from 6:30am to 7:30pm. A sample ballot for all Durham residents is available online.
